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thanks heaps. looks like exactly what i was looking for if not a great start. ive looked at xml files to try work it out. but i wasnt sure of so many things like unit sizes, how many images and them could have, limitations etc. once i get my head around how theme works ill be creating my own full themes. i used to create them for hyperspin until news of a new theme engine was announced for 2.0 like 4 years ago lol